Table of Contents

Skill Costs by Class

Some things to keep in mind on the table:

Skill Monk Paladin Priest Ninja Thief Barbarian Mage Swashbuckler Warlock Knight Devotee Elemental Wizard
Missile Weapon 10056443745387
Sword 10048446954389
Axe 10048973964389
Blunt 10045675644366
Spear 10048877974389
Unarmed Combat 399486979999
Armor 345666885378
Dodge 378334535945
Air Magic 888889485854
Fire Magic 888889495853
Water Magic 888889465855
Earth Magic 888889485854
Divine Magic 543889879848
Traps 597436767887
Thievery 597436758977
Persuasion 653647658776
Acrobatics 376534648966
Literacy 454779374743
Weaponsmith 966774978389
Armorer 467787978389
Jeweler 875777478934
Alchemy 885789388964
Bowyer 977775968389
Thaumaturgy 886899488963
Woodsman 576893899988
TOTAL 620161161161161161161161161161161161

Race Skill Modifiers

The table below represents the bonus/penalty a race gets for different skills. In the old system, the only thing that was applied is if a race would get a skill or not, but much more can be done. I had initially thought of giving the races specific skills with specific costs, but that either becomes really powerful if the skill is a low cost, or not really any difference at all if the skill is a moderate or high cost.

Using modifiers is much more interesting - now the modifiers do make it such that some races are ideally suited for different classes, but it was that way before given stat modifiers. That doesn't really change, but I've tried to put some interesting things into the mix - dwarves get a bonus for earth magic (being underground, makes sense to me) - thus, a dwarf can be the one race that can learn earth magic more easily than any other race. Dwarves, based on bonus stats, are also not great spellcasters, but I think that adds some interesting possibilities - now it may be that no one will ever take them.

Using modifiers also changes balance around a little. Elves get a -1 bonus for missile weapons - if you are an elf mage, it is still really costly to improve your missile weapon. Elf warrior could could be more interesting.

For the most part, I've used the existing race descriptions (and what skills they get) to decide where bonuses go. For all races, the net is 0, but that could change.

One thing to note is that a fair amount of skills have at least one race that gets a bonus (exception here is most of the weapon skills as nothing really popped out as this race should be really good with axes, etc). But there is also no race which gets a bonus to air magic, but several with fire.

Note on penalties: Giving a race penalty for a skill they can not use really isn't a penalty. And example here would be the Dragon and armor skill. One could give the dragon some bonus for spellcasting, and offset that with a bonus to armor - but since they can not wear armor in the first place, they would never have increased that skill under normal play, so putting a penalty there is really meaningless. Now players are going to pick and choose best race/class combos (and just based on bonuses, those clearly exist), but no point in adding in meaningless penalties.

Skill Dwarf Elf Fenx Fireborn Gnome Halfling Human Northman Dragon Half Orc quetzalcoatl Serpentman Troll Wraith
Missile Weapon -1-1
Sword
Axe
Blunt -1
Spear
Unarmed Combat 1
Armor 1
Dodge 1
Air Magic 1 1
Fire Magic 1 1-1 1
Water Magic 1 11 -1
Earth Magic -1 1
Divine Magic 1 -11
Traps 1
Thievery -1 -1
Persuasion -1 1 1
Acrobatics -1 -1
Literacy
Weaponsmith -1
Armorer -1
Jeweler
Alchemy
Bowyer -1
Thaumaturgy
Woodsman -1-1

Notes on the above:

Skill Descriptions

Notes on crafting skills: Most crafting skills have skills that are related to the actual use of that item. For example, weaponsmith and swords, and bowyer and missile weapons. What may be reasonable to do is have the idea of related skills and bonuses. For example, if the character is level 50 with swords, they know a lot about them, so should be better able to identify and craft them. Perhaps half of the skill level for actual use of the item gets applied to the creation skill, but the bonus can not exceed the actual skill itself. Note also that for some skills, the actual use skill may be more specific than the general skill - while weaponsmith covers all weapons, the axe skill would be used as a bonus against axes, etc.

For example, a character is level 50 in swords, level 20 in weaponsmith. Half of 50 is 25, but that exceeds the weaponsmith skill of 20, so the bonus is 20, or overall level 40 in that skill. This character is level 10 in axes, and decides to make an axe. Half of 10 is 5, which is less than 20, so is effectively level 25 for making axes.

One problem here is that this still requires a fair amount of skill in the crafting skill to get a bonus - perhaps this bonus should be adjusted based on what is being done. For example, a character that is really good and swords probably knows a lot about them, so should be good about identifying them, but may know nothing about making them. So perhaps the bonus only applies towards identification (with a more generous cap), and not towards creation.

Class Notes

Following is description of different classes and notes. I've written new descriptions with the idea that these could replace the existing ones. The descriptions are in italics.

Some general thoughts: For classes which are restricted, rather than outright ban skill use, perhaps make the cost prohibitive - eg, 100 AP/level would effectively mean a monk would never learn weapons.

Another thought on skills is perhaps that skills start at level 0, and a skill at level 0 can not be used. Thus, some classes may start or even learn certain skills, but they are still at level 0, and until some AP is spent on it, it is not usable. This probably really makes sense in terms of starting characters. For example, if a first level character gets 10 AP to spend, yet all their skills are already level 1, he is effectively a level up on all skills after spending those points.

Many of these descriptions need to be reworked. In the old system, a class either had a skill or not. In the new system, this is much more gray - characters may not start with all the skills, but even if they do learn new ones, the cost may be very high. In the descriptions below, I've used the terms about how good the character is with the skill, but that isn't really accurate - how good the character will be depends on how they spend their AP. How easy/hard it is to advance things is a more accurate description, but using the terms easy/hard to learn gets somewhat repetitive. I suspect the real answer will be to display these actual costs during character creation time.